palace c lynmasculineor stock f? we need to give permission to men to feel good about themselves in a different way. >> perhaps we don't need as many guns, available. lou: to be clear, that is your politics. >> it is plen tal gun perspecti. your comments now. doug wrote to say both parties, a disgraceful farce shame on us and the media to allow them to continue the scams unchallenged. gary says "more stone walling on ben gi sai? we'll never know the truth, will we?" i think we will. it may take time, but we will. that

moments ago, president obama saying he still has hope. >> i'm optimistic we may still be able to reach an agreement that can pass both houses in time. senators reid and mcconnell are working on such an agreement as we speak. >> and as we speak, rich edson is live in washington with the very latest. >> well, it's up to the senate. staffers and a majority leader harry reid, minority leader mitch mcconnell are trying to negotiate a scaled-down debt deal to avoid some of the fiscal cliff and take other major decisions on taxes and spending to the future. again, in an afternoon white house meeting president obama

pitch a debt plan he had outlined a week ago, prevent a tax increase for income of less than to an effective thousand dollars per year and extend long-term unemployment benefits. senate leaders are using that framework to try to craft a proposal to pass both houses of congress. aides say it would likely increase the threshold for tax increases, reversing massive pay cut from medicare doctors, and elections of millions of americans to avoid paying the alternative minimum tax. an increase in the debt ceiling is not part of the discussion. that is significant development for house republicans who won any increase in the borrowing limit it accompanied by an equal amount in spending cuts taking the debt ceiling of the table making it much easier for the scaled-down version to be negotiated. from here senate leaders will try to secure an agreement by sunday morning. if so, democrats and republicans will try to sell its house and senate members. if they can do that the voting begins. there is some progress report this evening, though there are no guarantees. congress will act to resolve

this. tom: this sounds a little bit like bob woodward's book to by bob woodward's book when he talked about the debt ceiling fight back in 2011. mcconnell, from the way i read it, mcconnell and reid took it away from the president and said , let us to work our own deal by ourselves, kind of cutting him out of the negotiations. >> that's basically it. with the president said was, you can come up with an alternative plan, one that can pass both houses of congress. if not, the president wants a vote on his plan only in the senate and in the house. the house leaders were non-committal. you also go back to the first time the bush tax cuts were expiring back in 2010, that was a deal cut between vice president joe biden and minority leader mitch mcconnell at that time where they stand at all the tax cuts and apparel tax cut and the unemployment benefits. so the leader coming in again trying to up for some type of compromise and get to the senate. for now the white house is letting the senate worked its magic. tom: interesting. but you very much.

well, r-texas congressman michael burgess says we need much deeper spending cuts than anyone is talking about. congressman, you know what they say, well, no, no, this austerity stuff will put us into recession. >> oh, there are so many different facets to this, tom. can i just say that the process part, and i know i'm not supposed to talk about process, but it makes me uncomfortable. the same people that were there 18 months ago in that room in the white house are there again. they did not come up with a very good idea in august of 2011, and we have to expect something different this time. but the american people in their wisdom returned the same players to the same positions in the last election, so we will deal with what we have to deal with. i do, you know -- it is important to point out that these are going to be revenue bills which have to originate in the house of representatives under our constitution. the senate has a bill that the

house passed in august, and this was a bill to extend all existing tax policy for an additional 12 months. the senate could take that bill, amended if they wish, and send it back to the house. the white house cannot just simply develop a revenue bill and ask both houses of congress to vote on it. doesn't work that way. tom: are you really getting in parliamentary weeds your little bit, congressman? it is a matter of, let's get an agreement from one place to the other. the see of the two chambers can work this out. at the same time, if harry reid and mitch mcconnell working on it how are you guys going to receive it when it gets over into your chamber? >> probably not well. here's the deal, this all could have been worked out some time ago. august of the end of july, the house-passed tax bill and senate over to the senate. there were free taken up an

amended and take it back. that's the way things usually work. revenue bills must originate the house of representatives. we get to work six months ago. a work product six there and wait for the senate to take something up. here is what is troubling about all this. we will get through this this week however it turns out or next week, however turns out. you are right about the debt limit. that is going to recess well, and then just after that we have an appropriations lapse. so the first three months of the year you have fiscal cliff, debt limit, and appropriations laps all staring the american people in the face. i get it that people are sick of this combat at the same time it is because we have such an nasa's spending problem is the reason why these things are occurring the way they are. tom: you heard the president come out and talk to the white house press corps. he talked about maintain a middle-class tax cuts. he did not define what that is.

maybe it to 50 might be 40500. extend unemployment benefits and the spending cuts will get to those letters. >> here is what is so ironic, the same democrats in 2001 and three railed against the bush tax cuts. now see some salvation in them because they are what is propping up the economy right now. beyond the ironic part of this, look, not only do you have that tax policy expiring and the sequestration pending on january 2nd, but we have also got a lot of taxes kicking in january 1st which will pack a mighty big wallop. this is the perfect trifecta of bad things happening to the economy all at once. no one is talking about postponing the obamacare piece of this. quite frankly, if you wanted to cut over 1 trillion in spending of the next ten years right now, there's a place to go.

tom: you laid it out as to rest can be. we have ourselves, like you said, trifecta of fiscal everything coming together at the same time. a very busy couple of months in washington, and we are watching. thank you so much for being with us. >> thank you. tom: you bet. is a bad deal worse than no deal? my next guest says yes. you bet. both sides are bouncing this thing. citizens for self governance, president mark mcclure joined by occidental professor caroline helpmann. let's start with you. bad deal worse than no deal? >> it is, and we're talking about the fiscal cliff. we are really dealing with is the fiscal fraud. we fell off the cliff along time ago. we are in the best, $16 trillion in debt. a debt our children and grandchildren will never be able to pay off, a total fraud, not dealing with spending, and unless they do we are not going to fix the problems is a country is facing. tom: same point, i mean, is this

something that will start tuesday or have businesses and individuals already started be having different because of the fact that this whole process was coming up in addition to what the congressman was talking about? >> certainly was tree has been reacting to this, but i very much disagree about the causes. that is when we extended tax cuts do so wealthy individuals in 2001 and three did not need them and then we saw an incredible decrease in revenue as a result of wall street tanking our economy in the 2008 economic downturn. it's not an issue so much of expanding -- expanded spending. spending is not a control. what is happening is revenue has declined. we need to not only increase the revenue, but i would argue, common-sense spending is a good idea. the fact that neither party wants to go over the fiscal cliff is indicative of the fact that these austerity measures are simply too draconian. we're talking about an 9 percent

unemployment rate by the end of the year if we do nothing in the fiscal cliff cousin to affect. tom: we can litigate and go back over who caused what. but i look at congress as being responsible for all of the spending, all the rules, all the laws, all of the real estate lending, all that. there the ones to set the rules. i mean, we did this. we elected this same crowd. the senate still has harry reid, the democrat, the house has john painter, the president is still the president. why she we expect anything to change. >> i don't expect anything to change. the reality is you have the same people. there very blunt, competent, dishonest, lying to the american public for a long time, promising things they know they cannot deliver. our children, grandchildren will pay the price. maybe sooner, but the bottom line is you are dealing with people who care about themselves to maintaining power.

>> i think they care about the 1%. they increase the taxes on those made for under thousand and above, less than 1%. and the republicans are holding the country hostage. they rejected that. tom: will that tax solve the deficit spending? >> it will if you include 2%, 250,000 for couples, 200,000 for individuals and above. you start taxing capital gains and dividends, reinstate that and get rid of $109 billion in corporate taxes every year. you're looking it over $300 billion. ." tom: upside-down by trillion closet -- a trillion dollars. not even close to fixing the deficit spending. still adding to the debt under republican and democrat programs >> this kind of class warfare rhetoric is serving a purpose. the reality is the proposed tax

increases will fund the federal government for approximately eight days. it might make people feel good and that's a reason to pass it. frankly, i don't hear any politicians talking reality but the fiscal problems facing the country which is democrat or republican. tom: do you have any hope that the blame game can be put aside so they can get some work done? in the private sector these people would be fired. >> absolutely. this is a do nothing congress, the least active in four years when it comes to policy making, and the reason we are here is that the delay decisions for the past two years. i do think that something will happen because if it doesn't the consequences will be so severe in the next year again over 9 percent unemployment and a significant slowdown in an already slow economy. tom: but the blame game, who is going to get the blame for this? >> well, that remains to be seen, right? we saw -- we see president obama playing this game where he is not really taking a position and

blaming it on the speaker. the republicans of doing the same. at think what needs to happen is delayed another month and not try to stop something to get the last minute, even though they are the reason that it is the last minute. tom: they keep taking things down the road. thank you both very much. >> thank you. tom: coming up, forget the fiscal cliff. you are also facing the dairy cliff. yes. if congress does not move fast, you're going to get note that the supermarket, and you're going to pay a lot more for that milk and cheese . hurricanes and the victims need help. washington is using the storm to pay for things like alaskan fisheries and new cars for bureaucrats. this one is going to drive you nuts. ♪

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$60 billion hurricane s&p relief bill in the last hour. now heads to the house for a possible weekend vote. the senate passing is good news for the victims of sandy, but the bill is also packed with projects that have nothing to do with the storm, like a new roof for the smithsonian museum. i'm sure there would like a new roof, but this is supposed to be for hurricane victims. millions for tree plantings and towns which sandy did not even pass, let alone damaged. my next guest says that is why they should have voted against it. american majority action spokesman, i just saw your tweet. you're talking about, what was it, $200 million for alaskan fisheries. you said, why alaska? >> i don't know. alaska is the only state in the union where you get a plate -- paid to live. they all have to pay taxes. they can afford fishery project. the bigger project is, why was this in the emergency bill for

hurricanes in the? doesn't make any sense. 9 billion will be spent in 2013. 85 percent doesn't come until 2014 and beyond. that's not immediately. what this bill is fundamentally is a poor bill. what the senate could have done is passed the clean $9 billion loan through -- through the states. here is your relief and pass that. instead to my they came back to washington to get their fix. the port that is in this bill, and it is ridiculous. tom: like you said, trying to cram all this in before the end of the year. is -- every piece of proponent writing about this has said this is critical. you do it before the end of the year because these victims are sitting there, and it's true. the victims are still sitting there in horrible conditions. temporary housing. a lot of that ends on

december 31st. in motel rooms, try to figure out where to go. homes are destroyed. is there some urgency, some part of this that can make a difference in some part of somebody's life next week? >> is no doubt about it, but make the case for why the senate should have done this right. what put all this pork inerrant way this bill down. it's disgraceful to load a bill like this that has good motives to my good intentions, help people with pork. it's an emergency bill for sandy victims. it's typical of washington. exactly the type of thing that needs to stop in the city. frankly, it encourages young people like me who will have to pay for stuff like this and our future, pay the interest payments for this type of baloney. tom: where are the young people. you know, the and people turned out to vote in november. yet your generation is going to be the one that puts -- foots

the bill for all of this. where is a screaming? >> talking to young people. frankly, our organization and a few others i1 of the few organizations talking to young people who are conservative. many debt more conservative talking to young people, explaining these issues, going to college campuses not being afraid to get a college campuses demagogy and communities. right now we read them -- of, that's the liberal environment. we can't go there which is why we're losing that battle. tom: the conversation takes place to sit connect the dots, listen, we thought we voted for this inspirational person. yet all we are getting is more debt handed to us. again, i repeat that republican and democrat plans to solve the fiscal cliff have nothing, are not reducing the deficit one iota. >> basically, i'm going to have to spend my prime years and the folks i know, spend their prime years paying off the interest payments.

the fact of the matter is in the interest, social security and medicare will consume the budget in the near future, right when i probably want to be starting a business, getting my life going enough razzle want to get their life going. instead, will be paying taxes on lobbying indentured servants of the government. this is absolutely immoral to have this happen. this is what congress is passing on to us and is why conservatives in the house and senate need to be serious about these fiscal cliff tops, especially about the debt ceiling, not just sitting back and saying president obama won the election. if we don't act now my generation will spend our prime years being servants of the government, and that's not right. tom: i hope you do. i give you one more step before you go. the amount of interest that we pay on the debt that china owes, owns of our debt is enough to pay for their entire military for the whole year. we are basically funding with that the debt china military. thank you.

i appreciate you coming on. well, forget the fiscal cliff. washington might be sending cows off a cliff. ♪ this family used capital one venture miles to come home for the holidays. that's double miles you can actually use... sadly, their brother's white christmas just gotblacked out." [ brother ] but it's the family party! really jingles your bells, doesn't it? my gift to you! the capital one venture card! for any flight, any time! that's double miles you can actually use! how illuminating. what's in your wallet? let me guessam on the naughty list again? ho ho ho! pizza hut's $10 any pizza on deal is back.ist again? any pizza, toppings, sis. ...ten bucks. the meat lover's pizza.

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♪ tom: washington still fighting over the debt deal. farmers are worried about dairy deal. the farm bill is set to expire at the end of the year along with everything else that is going on. the senate agricultural committee chairwoman pushing for a short-term extension to avert the cliff. but if that does not happen, no prices -- milk prices to go up to $8 per gallon. the supermarket group on how this is going to turn consumers soured. you bet that would.

that's about double. >> it is about double. it will increase, hopefully not. you are between three and $4 a gallon. it is not just about melt. this is a food cliff. we talk about the financial cliff. keep in mind, we're coming off of two years of horrible weather conditions around the globe. the drought this past summer -- tom: said of the best the weather people. rsi corporation. >> it's not. the usda has said over the next 20 years we're going to see more weather conditions that affect the price of food. food prices are going to go up. we don't need this nonsense happening in washington over the farm bill. we have to get this passed. secretary fill site has been saying that the past six months. tom: are we just subsidizing your? and me, if we take away this subsidy and the prices go to a guy isn't that what the real market price of milk is? >> it's not because is not about the farmers. it's about the dairy in the distribution. it's all over the lot.

you take a look. here in new york city prices are higher than 2 miles away in new jersey. you know, there is a lot of risk here. frankly, we are having an economy where people a startling to pay for their supermarket food. day in and day out. bottom line is, it is going to get worse. there really have to pay attention to this. they have to focus on it, and a half to get this solved. tom: i know this is a little off topic, but the food stamps, edt cards will ever the call them now, i was over and against this a couple weeks ago, and they had a big, you know, in the middle of the gas station they sell the high-priced snacks. and that's all it is, high-priced snacks, and they had a big sign saying we accept edt cards. at bottom line is in the government negotiate with major food grocery chains regionally to try to get their costs down? because otherwise people going in and paying the premium price on our dollars for the food stamps. >> to be honest with you, there

are a lot of programs out there now, a fabulous show up in connecticut started out here in manhattan, comes from a family of farmers. what he has done is put together a nonprofit where, if you're on food stamps and you go to a farmer's market in you buy food to suffer in vegetables, they double the value for you. so there is a lot of programs out there in this country that really helped. but when we look at know, for example, one of the things that has me concerned, if you could do york city, and there has been a lot of research of the past year, year-and-a-half since the mayor talked about this, the soda tax in changing the size is die in those cities where soda is less expensive than milk soda consumption is tired and milk. in those cities that no consumption come up prices are lower, guess what. tom: so you're saying that milk prices shoot up, people just switch over and start tracking service. >> absolutely. tom: a $1 trillion five-year deal. every five years this thing

comes around. every five years i hear the same complaints and nothing gets done >> correct. goes back to 1949 when the farm bill started. it is antiquated. it really doesn't take into consideration those crops that need subsidies. do we really need a subsidy on corn these days? put the price. is now $300 a ton. when you have animals and you have to feed the cows, it's about three times what it was just a couple years ago. tom: the other problem with corn is everybody knows, you know, we don't know what number is, but we know there is some at the mall program causing corn prices to be distorted. >> between 30 and 40% of corn is going for ethanol, and of the remaining 60% about half its exported. now we are starting to see is china is really, you know, starting to plan lots of corn because they see this as a great opportunity to get into it. tom: do you think this note will go up to $8? they're going to try to get it done before sunday.

>> i hope not. i really think that the secretary, that the white house is really pushing to release of this farm bill because if not we're going to add some severe problems when you go into a supermarket and c $8 per gallon of milk. you're going to throw up your hands and say, this is worse than i ever thought. >> absolutely. tom: we will check back with you. thank you so much. well, it is just a movie, but in real life mandamus promised land is rallying environmentalists. meet the guy who says that the dangerous thing for the economy. >> you sign this lease,. >> a lot of money. >> there is no reason your town should not have a state-of-the-art high-school. >> when you talk about?

♪ >> we can walk away. we always do. after every single town with in three states to sign up for this

and the blows of this economy are almost unbearable, we're going to come back and offer you nothing. we will offer this town nothing. every contract we have signed, every piece of the pie we have offered, it all goes away. tom: it's halftime, and mandamus new movie is going full throttle to blast fracking, environmentalists are trying to block that type of natural gas drilling, and they are using the film as a rallying cry. demonstrators and no higher today say the movie is inspiring laughlin's mark k. from the heritage foundation says that is ridiculous because fracking is safe and creates jobs. but movies are fictional. they take little license with reality sometimes. >> they do. but when you have, as you noted, a movie that is in forming public opinion and maybe even in forming public policy to the degree that this one is, a tickets important to point out where the movie goes wrong,

where it's sort of sidesteps the facts, where it is not really fair to both sides of the argument. the good is important but that up to the degree that feature films become statements of political opinion or public policy. tom: gosh, we talked about that in the political campaigns. hollywood uses what they know how to do to create a message. this is part of their message, this is all bad. >> and they're really get at it. feature films tend to be a lot more effective at promoting political messages, ironically, then explicit political communications. you've had a lot of documentaries about hydraulic fracturing, gas land being the most notorious, but when you are more up front with your agenda and you don't present a narrative as compelling as a feature film by its nature will, you probably won't have as big of an impact as a blockbuster film with an a-list cast probably will. >> and then gas land is probably already receiving notoriety about the fact that they had

these people that were letting their kitchen faucets in flames which you out of their faucets. it turned out to be a methane gas that everybody knew was there, had nothing to do with the fact that there was gas coming up to their pipes. so that has been pretty well refuted, but there is still a small group of people who base everything off of these movies. >> right. welcome the small group of people does not include the dozens of state regulators that have said that this is as safe practice, even outgoing epa administrator lee said jackson, who is pretty renowned environmentalist has said there is no proving instance of hydraulic fracturing contaminating groundwater, which is, of course, the chief concern a lot of these fears are based more on emotion. when you look at the facts of the practice, it's far safer than the mad damons of the world would have you believe. tom: but we are not scientists. that is the problem.

we don't know. we don't know what the truth is. we start hearing all these different arguments from political groups. how are we supposed to sort this out? >> that is exactly the problem. the film does exactly that. a sort of present the and permit the concerns and then leave it at that. they don't put forward any of the irrefutable facts that sort of a lay those concerns. so we do what we're doing right now. we try to get the message out, point out where the movie goes wrong to make sure that people are informed when they step into that theater so they don't come out with a skewed view of the practice. tom: it seems like fracking is, at the very least, whether you're for it or against it, at the very least, the places that are doing it, the states that are doing it a thrill to. they are absolutely giddy about their jobs and the money that they are collecting, the taxes they are collecting for their states, and it is providing the future.

we keep talking about we won independence, energy independence in this country. gosh, it just seems like all of that is moving in the right direction. >> yes. we are projected to overtake saudi arabia and oil production in the next couple decades, precisely because of this palm. if you go out to places like north dakota, for instance, which is about the balkan shale formation, uc -- it's incredible you have towns of 1 percent unemployment rates. north dakota has the lowest. tom: new york and california with all kinds of oil under their feet and they won't take it. >> that's right. you have groups of using the legal system, trying to up suits either prevent this from happening or tighten up regulations will bring regulation faugh to the federal level. it's a shame. as you know, these towns that have really been very -- hit very hard would do very well if

we expanded this practice. tom: it would provide jobs, money, taxes and all that. laughlin from the heritage. thank you. appreciate. >> thank you for adding me. tom: well, martin class by a teacher with no class. of for wearing a mitt romney t-shirt. now this girl is taking this -- taking a stand by making her school take the stand. the court battle you will believe.

♪ >> to tell me to get out of the class. i said, no poor because in the hallway. that's like wearing a kkk shirt because she knows nothing about a. tom: she claims her teacher martyr. now our family is suing. the lawsuit is claiming the philadelphia school district ignored that right to free

speech and let other students harasser and subject her to an emotional distress. to our legal eagles in tonight's let me be brief segment, trial attorneys says -- samantha has a good case. debra plumb sides with the school. deborah, let's start with you. why is the school right? >> the school was not involved. the teacher was acting in an individual capacity, not in her official capacity. granted, her actions were completely wrong. the evidence does not support that the school had promulgated a policy of limiting the students' free-speech, so the school is absolutely not liable. tom: how can she not be part of my employers work if i'm performing my teaching duties. aren't i basically representing the school? >> you are, but i would say this is an exception to that. this teachers actions were completely wrong, and they were not following the policy of the

school. the school allowed the students to dress down for the day. it typically have to wear uniforms. the students made this choice. the teacher went out on a complete land and reacted completely inappropriately. that was not consistent with what the school typically does, and the school is taking steps now to prevent this from happening in the future. tom: you take the opposite side. why is the student, why did she have a case? >> listed absolutely has a case, and i believe the school district is heavily vicariously liable because if u.s. supreme court has been clear. students do not check their constitutional rights at the schoolhouse gate. the supreme court has already knowledge, the united states supreme court, that student dress is a form of free speech that cannot be restricted unless the school can show, with evidence but tangible evidence, that address will cause a substantial distraction in the

school. this teacher had an agenda. she did not agree with this students believe and decided to bully her. the person that -- the people that we entrust our students with, the perpetrators of the crime here. tom: that is a very good point. and i mean, it is the bullying that i am curious about. you can't let -- she said that she was bullied because of this whole situation. does the school have a responsibility to help prop? >> the school does have a responsibility to help prop. they met with herkimer family. they're doing everything they can. the school did not promote this attitude. i agree. freeespeech is protected by the first amendment. students have that right in school, but this is not the school policy. this teacher was grossly inappropriate. and unless the family or their lawyers can show that this teacher had done this before, there is simply not enough to link the school to the teachers action. tom: i thought the schools did

have the right, and i don't know the court cases. you do. at that they had the right to say, listen, you can't just where anything you want to school. you can come with the t-shirt or a signer something that was inflammatory, would parade problems, fights, all kinds of things. the schools have been given some sort of jurisdiction over your free speech rights while you're in the property of the school, and a writer on? >> you're right about that. school districts certainly have an interest in protecting what goes on in a school. the safety of the student, the order of the school, but school officials cannot arbitrarily just set rules like this when, like i said before, the supreme court has the knowledge that dress is a form of free-speech. in this case there was no disruption. anyone cause substantial disruption it was his agenda- driven teacher. i use that term teacher leslie. and i actually disagree with your other guest. i believe that it is the school district, why is the teacher

still working in? where the teachers unions? perhaps -- this highlights of one of the major problems that we have a teacher unions. tom: that is another whole show. that's another show but teachers and the fact that you can't fire them. so what kind of remedy could they possibly get out of this? >> well, by going after the school they are looking for money. perhaps the school will instruct the teachers in the future to not do such a thing and hopefully this will not happen again, but the school is not liable. tom: and what kind of damages? ammine -- >> right. i would definitely, if i was representing vista and in this case, and adding that the planters attorney is seeking punitive damages, not just compensatory, but punitive damages to teach this school and his teacher lesson that you cannot arbitrarily trump a students constitutionally recognized first amendment

right. they need to be taught a lesson, and i hope the jurors and the judge to the right thing in this case. >> just to say the school is not the one responsible. his teacher went out of her own best under a conceived notions and should be punished. tom: all right. >> the school districts and so should not. tom: ladies, thank you very much. appreciate your coming on. >> thank you. >> thank you. tom: the guy who predicted the financial crisis and recession years before it happened this year now. what he is saying about next year could push you into a depression. ♪

♪

♪ tom: signs the economy might be starting to bounce back, the dow is up nearry 6% this year. housing numbers are getting a little bit better.

and trend forecaster saying don't pop the champagne just yet because next year is not looking too hot. remember, he predicted the financial crisis years before it happened, so i would listen to him. listen to you. >> thank you. welcome back to the program. what is your take on 2013? >> well, we made it through the mine calendar. going of the fiscal cliff. how much was connected? we look at 2013 as more of the same, but worse. tom: does not good. >> it is what it is. look at what is going on in washington. the intent and incompetence, they are not doing anything to make things better. he looked at all the money being dumped into the system, not only the united states of worldwide. we have a new prime minister of japan who now has told the bank of japan, print that money, catch up to the united states, europe, china. they're just dumping this money to the system to keep it going. as you mentioned, housing starts

, housing prices. tom: i have to tell you, i think i'm in your camp on this one. i'm a be gloomier than the one housing because i don't see the fundamentals are still wrong. the people that are buying homes are investors paying all cash. maybe some starter homes, but the mortgages are still tough to get. the appraisers are still tough appraisals to get. and you have one at the three people in this country under water. i still don't see the fundamentals of the old buy and sell transaction sapping get. >> vote for me. on make things better. >> exactly. >> year 100 percent right. the only reason the housing market is going up is because interest rates are so. i've been of state kingston on one of the most historic quarters in the united states. the only place on each corner where they're is a stone building that greed -- predate the revolution, and that just bought one. seventeen fifties building. i just got a commercial loan at

three 1/4%. they cover closing costs. ten years locked in. that is what is spurring the real-estate market. borrowing money for free, and you're paying it back as i was talking about devaluing the currency. that is what they're doing in japan in the u.s. that is what is using the market . tom: you are kind of a macro guy. you looked at the broad market place. i have to ask you. is the marketplace bigger than washington to act even though they are dunderheads down their running the place, and i know they make a lot of policy. and we, the media, give them a lot of attention. doesn't the market cycle override what they can do? >> this is a global collapse. pick up today's wall street journal. read what's going on in amsterdam with prime property being vacant. look at what is going on in spain. millions of people taking to the streets. they still call it a recession

with 25 percent unemployment in spain, greece. things are getting worse everywhere. the austerity measures, what austerity measures? i got one. make a story. i'll make a bad bet. i don't want to take my losses. of take the money from you, mr. citizen. of tax you more, cat your services. what you do did you will pay more for my note that your pension and benefits. tom: how does all this in? we wind up with pitchforks? >> it's happening now. they don't call it class warfare. that is what is going on over there. again, there is no air spring. there's nothing about a pro-democracy movement. far too few had much too much and way too many head was too little. the people in the street that one piece of the pipe command it's going on around the world. and for some reason people are oblivious to it. look in this country, college graduates, the income is declining eight or 10% since the

recession. you can't find a job. 3 percent of them have jobs paying high-school wages. so you're right. it's not getting better, and again, we have the incompetence in washington making things worse. tom: but the numbers, you look at the numbers and you see those numbers, they are inching up a little bit. we are getting a little bit of growth. we have a little better ventilation. we have a little bit of a decline in the unemployment rate. all these numbers are kind of scratching in the right direction. that is why people -- and they're so anxious for it, so hungry for it that they are upraising any tiny movement. why is it happening? >> because they are dumping the cheap money into the system. who would have believed we would have interest rates as zero. who. as i said. it. tom: and, bernanke says we are not looking at any change on that intel may be 2015. last year 2014. the year before -- he just he's pushing it down the road.

>> exactly. you can't make this up. we would have never believed for words killed american in my estimation. they killed capitalism. too big to fail. that was the beginning. tom: moral hazard is gone. >> is gone. tom: and i'm worried about the fact that there is another generation that will come along the won't know what moral hazard even this. tom: -- >> and why should they? put it was going on with the banks. have you seen one and a role on wall street? they pay these massive fines and nobody did. tom: on all of that, happy new year. always good to get your take. thank you very much for coming along. thank you, folks, for coming along as well, sitting in. it has been a pleasure. thank you very much. have a wonderful new year, and good night. ♪ copd makes it hard to breathe, but with advair, i'm breathing better.

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